ANDREW LIMBONG, HOST:
At the United Nations this week, more than a hundred countries met to discuss commitments to cut pollution by 2035 as part of a global effort to counter climate change. Also at the U.N. this week, President Trump called climate change, quote, the "greatest con job" ever perpetrated on the world, and he called green policies a scam. And he said he was worried about Europe. We're joined now by the climate commissioner for the European Union, Wopke Hoekstra. Hi, Commissioner. Welcome.
WOPKE HOEKSTRA: Thank you very much for having me on the show.
LIMBONG: So let's start with some of the new commitments announced earlier this week to cut pollution levels, to address global warming. What stands out to you?
HOEKSTRA: First of all, it is hugely important that the world continues to make this effort because, frankly speaking, this problem is getting worse before it gets better, right? So if you just look at the sheer impact on our economies, on geopolitics, on the ecosystem we live in, the damage simply is huge. It is imperative that the global community, the world together also tries to fix this.
LIMBONG: And so what have you heard this week?
HOEKSTRA: We learned, for example, about the Chinese example, which, in my view, is a step, but at the same time, disappointing in where they land. They're not going to do much more than some 10% reduction by 2035. And given that they are the largest emitter on the planet, responsible for roughly 30% of global emissions, it would have been hugely important for them to take more responsibility, more leadership and do more.
LIMBONG: So Commissioner, help us understand, what are the EU's commitments for 2035?
HOEKSTRA: So our commitment is a range between 66.3- and 72.5% and...
LIMBONG: To reduce emissions.
HOEKSTRA: Of reduced emissions compared to '99, which was our peak here. You always take the peak and then, you know, the percentage that you managed to drive down by 2035. If you were to put into perspective - because I can fully understand that it's hard to assess, is this is good? Is this mediocre? Is this bad? - this will put us at the top or very near the top of the most ambitious. Great Britain is probably going to have a target that is even higher, but we will come as a close second, I think.
LIMBONG: How does President Trump's hostility to climate action impact momentum on the world stage?
HOEKSTRA: I think it is diplomatic to basically refrain from trying to be a pundit and analyze his specific speech. But if I zoom out, what I can tell you is that American leadership matters, and frankly speaking, all matters that we have, whether it's geopolitics, whether it's the economy or whether it's climate, the U.S. simply is the most formidable player across the globe. You are the No. 1 economy, and you are the second largest emitter. So the fact that the U.S. is no longer being part of these conversations is a major blow to international efforts. That's just a reality.
LIMBONG: So how do you bring the whole world along when the U.S. isn't playing ball?
HOEKSTRA: It makes it more complicated, and it makes conversations with China also more complicated. And with all the other large emitters, all the large industrial nations, which we typically call the G20, together responsible for roughly 85% of global emissions, it does do something with the dynamics. At the same time, the problem is not going to go away, right? The ecosystem, the planet doesn't give a damn whether this is easy or difficult. It's simply warming up. And the impact in terms of droughts, wildfires is basically continuing, and that will have increasingly a very, very significant economic cost. So forget about all the lingo about saving the planet. This is an economic reality we need to face.
LIMBONG: Climate action isn't a light switch, right? It's not particularly nimble. Like, businesses have invested, and there are new market realities, but how do you face the big challenges when you have these big swings in American policy?
HOEKSTRA: So the interesting thing is, when I talk to businesses, whether they're from the U.S. or from Europe or wherever, it is crystal clear to them that the future will be decarbonized and that if you don't expose yourself to that economy, you will have a very bad chance of surviving as a company, not in the very short run, but in the longer run for sure. So that is why, in so many industries, CEOs are making sure that they do go into change mode. They might not always use that anymore under the header of climate or of clean, but for many of them, it simply makes business sense to step up.
And the numbers show that they are right. Just to give you one number that I've always found absolutely spectacular, if you look at what happened to the price of solar, that dropped by roughly 95% in terms of cost just in this decade or in this century, so in these 25 years, alone. And the costs are ever further going down. So it is just attractive from a commercial perspective to have exposure to that.
LIMBONG: The EU has made progress in its clean energy transition, but it still imports Russian gas. And I think that reliance is problematic for the bloc's climate and broader policy goals. So how are you working to reconcile this?
HOEKSTRA: We're trying to eradicate that as quickly as we can, Andrew. I just - no doubt about it. We have made a severe mistake years ago to believe that, you know, this dependency was actually OK and that it was with a trustworthy partner. And then the Ukrainians turned out to be at the receiving end of an absolutely illegal, horrible war the Russians have forced upon them. And immediately, when we then started to side with the Ukrainians, the effect was that the Russians were trying to threaten us with this dependency. So never again. The good news is, we have actually eradicated this dependency already for 90%. The last 10% is the most difficult, but you're absolutely right. We should step up and make sure that we get rid of that.
LIMBONG: Often, you know, regular people get lost in these conversations, right? So what stories do you hear from people about what is changing their lives? And what can people concerned about climate do themselves?
HOEKSTRA: I fully understand that people, on the one hand, are saying, look, I'm worried about all the news I'm getting and what this will mean for my life or for the life of my kids, and at the same time, wonder about how measures governments are taking might impact our lives. If you're working in the coal industry and the plant is going to close, well, you might intellectually agree that that is good for climate, but of course you wonder about how you're going to feed your kids. And then it matters whether there are actually jobs available in new industries and whether there's training available to make sure you get skilled in a way that gives you a decent chance for a great job in that new industry. But it is important to make sure that we facilitate these type of things, in my view.
LIMBONG: Wopke Hoekstra is the European Union climate commissioner. Commissioner, thank you so much for joining us.
HOEKSTRA: Thank you very much for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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