STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
President Trump's new chief of staff starts work today.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Yeah. Stephen Miller takes over the role after serving as deputy. And in a moment, we'll discuss the move with a former colleague of Miller. His elevation is the president's first big personnel move since his party suffered an overwhelming defeat in the midterm elections. Susie Wiles, the previous chief of staff, had been seen as something of a calming influence.
INSKEEP: OK. So what does that change tell us about the second half of Trump's second term? We brought in NPR's Mara Liasson, who I think of as a calming influence. Mara, good morning.
MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Ha, ha, ha. Hi (laughter).
INSKEEP: Anyway, good to hear from you. What has Stephen Miller's role been up to now?
LIASSON: Miller was the deputy chief of staff. Now he's the chief of staff. He's a hard-liner on a number of issues, primarily mass deportations. He's also behind policies to revoke temporary protected status for immigrants from places like Somalia and Haiti. He believes in unchecked executive power. And I think by choosing Miller, Trump is showing that he is ready for a lot of fights with an opposition Congress.
INSKEEP: Well, yeah. But he also said he was going to look for ways to work with Democrats. Does this signal that nah?
LIASSON: Well, I think it signals that he wants to continue a confrontation. Miller has shown no interest in compromise, tells you that Trump wants to double down on his policies. Miller has called Democrats, quote, "extremists and freaks." He's called the Democratic Party a domestic extremist organization.
INSKEEP: And you already mentioned one thing when you talked about revoking temporary protected status. Miller has worked the bureaucracy very hard over two terms, really, finding more and more ways to block both legal and illegal immigrants from the United States. And he's had shouty performances on TV. That's his image.
LIASSON: That's right. Trump said one of the reasons he chose him is because Miller is, quote, "a fighter and very loyal." And here is Miller talking last year about crime in Memphis, Tennessee.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
STEPHEN MILLER: The gangbangers that you deal with, they think that they're ruthless. They have no idea how ruthless we are. They think they're tough. They have no idea how tough we are. They think that they're hardcore. We are so much more hardcore than they are. And we have the entire weight of the United States government behind us.
LIASSON: But just last night, Trump said in a "60 Minutes" interview on CBS that his administration's deportation policy may have gone too far. Here he is.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And there's a large group of people think that they should be allowed to stay, so...
ROSS DOUTHAT: So you think your deportation policy went too far?
TRUMP: I think it was too tough.
DOUTHAT: It was too tough.
TRUMP: I think it might be too tough, yeah.
LIASSON: So there's what he says and what he does. One of Trump's close allies, Roger Stone, said when Trump turned to Miller, it's because he wanted a, quote, "wartime consigliere." And it tells you how Trump is viewing the next two years - fight, fight, fight.
INSKEEP: OK. Speaking of fighting, over the weekend, the president said on social media he'd offered the job of White House press secretary to the UFC head. Ultimate Fighting Championship head Dana White. And then said it was only a joke. What's going on?
LIASSON: Well, I think the fact that people couldn't tell whether it was a joke or just a troll is the issue here. You know, Trump was clear about one thing. He said he liked White because he's, quote, "a violent fighter and warrior." Now, on the other hand, Trump could have been serious at first and then changed his tune when he saw the response to White. But here's the thing. Because he's the president, we have to take him both seriously and literally. This is similar to other things he said, like when he said the war with Iran is over, or that the U.S. obliterated the Iranian nuclear program, or that there's a ceasefire in Ukraine when none of those things were true.
And if you can't take the statements of the president of the United States at face value, that can be a problem. Now, maybe not as significant when it comes to who's going to be the next press secretary as it could be in other situations.
INSKEEP: NPR's Mara Liasson. Thanks for the insights.
LIASSON: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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