LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Now, the Kennedy Center is more than just a performing arts venue. It's a living memorial to John F. Kennedy as mandated by Congress in 1964. For more on the legal fight surrounding the D.C. monument, I'm joined now by Nathaniel Zelinsky. He's lead counsel at the Washington Litigation Group, which is representing Congresswoman Joyce Beatty in her lawsuit against the Kennedy Center board.
NATHANIEL ZELINSKY: Good morning.
FADEL: So as you understand it, is the board legally allowed to close the Kennedy Center?
ZELINSKY: Absolutely not. There's actually an order that Judge Cooper issued back in May in which Judge Cooper said that the first vote to shut down had been unlawful, that the center didn't consider all of the things that it should have considered when deciding whether to close for renovation. And it's important to note that performing arts centers don't just shut down completely when you do renovations. The industry standard is you actually maintain some degree of arts. You have a link with your artists, your donors and your patrons. And that's what the center had always planned to do.
So Judge Cooper said that the initial plan to shut down had been unlawful. And Judge Cooper said that if they want to vote to shut down again, before they shut down, they have to come back to Judge Cooper and prove that what they were doing was prudent and consistent with the board's obligations under the law.
FADEL: So are you going back to the judge to try and get the center reopened?
ZELINSKY: Well, so legally, right now, the center has to be open. So what has to happen is actually the government has to go to Judge Cooper and say, we would like to close. So it's actually the reverse. They'll have to go to Judge Cooper, and they'll have to ask Judge Cooper, can we shut down? Is everything we did consistent with your opinion? We think the answer to that is no. We think this was, again, another sort of...
FADEL: Because they're saying they did it over safety concerns, that the building is so deteriorated that it's not safe to be open.
ZELINSKY: Yes. No, that's exactly right. We think this is a sort of sham justification. And the reality is that they have - they're trying to hide the fact that after the unlawful renaming that renamed the center after Donald Trump, that there was a remarkable drop in artists, patrons and donors. And so they're trying to hide that fact by going through with this shutdown.
FADEL: Now, the center is actually closed, from what we understand. It's being reported that it is closed.
ZELINSKY: So we are investigating that. I know there were reports of that late last night. We have demanded answers from the government, and we're going to be following up on that this morning. If it is closed, that would be a very serious breach of the court's order.
FADEL: Now, what, if anything, can you tell us about Congresswoman Beatty's interactions with President Trump at the board meeting yesterday? We understand it was heated.
ZELINSKY: So my understanding from the congresswoman and what I think she said publicly is there was some heated interactions at the meeting. The reality is that at the end of the day, the law here is very clear. The center cannot be named for Donald Trump. It can only be named for John F. Kennedy. But repeatedly, the president has tried to put his name - this is now the - almost, I think, third time that he has attempted to put his name on the center. The court has clearly said he can't do that. The law here is very clear. He obviously feels differently.
FADEL: Now, the president says if he can't get his name on the building, he won't actually fix anything. I mean, even though Congress has appropriated $257 million for Kennedy Center repairs. Is there a way to compel the president to carry out the repairs approved by Congress?
ZELINSKY: So I - what I would step back and say is that what the president's threat is, is nakedly unlawful as well. Because a prudent trustee, a loyal trustee does not say, I'm only going to help this institution that I am charged with overseeing if it honors me. That's just not what a prudent trustee does. So I think that what you're getting at is exactly right. The president here is violating his obligations as a trustee. The question of how we proceed then is one that I think is going to be in front of Judge Cooper and could be very complicated.
FADEL: Now, as you mentioned, it's been several times that the board has tried to add the name. The judge in this case said they were just doing linguistic gymnastics because of the term restored by President Donald J. Trump. Now, Trump says he will take this to the Supreme Court. Could you see this legal battle going that far?
ZELINSKY: I mean, look, any litigant can always say, we can take this to the Supreme Court. We feel very confident in our position legally. We've already prevailed now twice before the district court. We've prevailed once before the D.C. Circuit at the interim stay stage. And the government declined, by the way, to go to the Supreme Court at that stage, which I think is a telling indication that their arguments are weak. And, you know, we're going to continue to vigorously litigate this.
FADEL: Now, in the Truth Social post I mentioned earlier where Trump said he would withhold repairs until his name was on the building, he also mentioned that he raised $17 million to keep the Kennedy Center afloat. So it seems like he's threatening to withhold money for repairs but also raising money to keep it going. I mean, what do you make of that?
ZELINSKY: Well, I think the problem here is that there is a - we have no idea what the accuracy of those Truth Social posts is. I mean, there was a Truth Social post back in February of 2026 in which the president announced that he was going to close the center and said he had conducted a one-year review with all the best experts and artists. And everyone said closure was the best idea. Judge Cooper found in his May decision that no one-year review ever happened, that in a word, that was a lie. And so I have no idea what the reference to the $17 million even is. I have no idea if that's true. And this is a scenario where facts are stubborn things. And so we need to get the facts, not just whatever the president says in a Truth Social post.
FADEL: Now, you filed that Truth Social post with the judge. What's the goal there?
ZELINSKY: I think we had to tell the judge of a recent development in the case. And, you know, the development was both the fact that they had voted and then the fact that the president had linked these two things, the renaming and the renovations. The government has always said, we need to shut down immediately to conduct renovations. But now the president is saying, we're not going to conduct the renovations until my name goes up. He's holding the center hostage. And that's a fact that is relevant to the court's analysis.
FADEL: Now, I want to take a step back here because I imagine your client and the president see this as a bigger fight than about a name on a building. What is your client fighting for?
ZELINSKY: At the end of the day, this is really a fight about the rule of law. The Kennedy Center is a memorial, named for a slain president. And Congress designated that it can only be named for John F. Kennedy. And so, look, there are lots of fights right now in this country about the rule of law. Some of them are very important but are a little abstract. This is a fight over the rule of law. Must the president follow the law that is very tangible? It's visible. People see it with their own eyes. And it, at the end of the day, is about a president abusing his powers for his own vanity.
FADEL: That's Nathaniel Zelinsky, lead counsel at the Washington Litigation Group, which is representing Congresswoman Joyce Beatty in her lawsuit against the Kennedy Center board. Thank you for your time.
ZELINSKY: Thanks for having me.
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