A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
White House envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow today for talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
In an added twist, Witkoff will be joined by President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner. Discussions are expected to focus on a U.S. peace plan to end the war in Ukraine.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR's Charles Maynes joins us on the line from Moscow. So, Charles, Witkoff meeting Putin - those two guys, no strangers to each other. But Jared Kushner - how does he fit in?
CHARLES MAYNES, BYLINE: Yeah. You know, Jared Kushner was involved in negotiations with a Ukrainian delegation in Florida over the weekend. But this clearly takes his role to another level, much like the one he played in the Gaza negotiations. You know, as to Witkoff, well, he now has - will have met with Putin six times since January. So he knows Putin well, and he knows his team well. Some would argue too well, as a recent leak of a phone transcript of conversations he had with Kremlin mediators appeared to show.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. I mean - so OK. So they have some kind of rapport. But has that led to any breakthroughs, any flexibility at all in Vladimir Putin's positions on Ukraine?
MAYNES: Well, Witkoff has come out of past meetings saying he believes Putin wants peace. The White House says it's hopeful, too. And yet that's hard to square with scenes broadcast last night here on Russian TV, which suggested that what Putin wants is victory.
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PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN: (Speaking Russian).
MAYNES: So Putin visited a military command post, dressed in fatigues, where his top brass reported Russian gains on all fronts. And they told Putin that ill-equipped Ukrainian recruits were essentially being sent to slaughter, which prompted this response.
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PUTIN: (Speaking Russian).
MAYNES: So here, Putin, getting emotional, says, this is a tragedy for the Ukrainian people. And he goes on to blame the criminal policies of their pro-Western government, which he labeled an illegal junta, for dragging it into war.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. So some pretty strong language there by Vladimir Putin, on the eve of these peace talks, no less. So what do you make of that?
MAYNES: Well, I think it's important first to point out this is a very Kremlin interpretation of recent Ukrainian history, one most Ukrainians would dispute. But leaving that aside, yeah, the video seems to be a message to Trump and his team that any compromises towards Ukraine are out of the question. I mean, look. This deal was initially tilted in Russia's favor, which got Putin's cautious endorsement, but then came the blowback. Ukraine, Europe - even some Republicans in Congress - said this was unacceptable, and they demanded changes. And so with each revision, they pulled it further away from a deal Moscow liked. And these scenes of Putin and his generals certainly seem an attempt to convince the U.S. that there's just no alternative but for Ukraine to bend to core Russian demands. And those remain Ukraine formally giving up territory Moscow claims to have annexed, including parts not occupied by Russian forces, and the ban on Ukraine joining NATO, full stop.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. So, Charles, if those are the bottom-line Russian demands, what does Ukraine want?
MAYNES: Well, Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, was in Paris yesterday for a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron, in which they clearly tried to impress upon the U.S. the need for long-term security guarantees for Ukraine. Here's Zelenskyy.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
MAYNES: So here, Zelenskyy says Ukraine must know for sure that when the war ends, the West is willing to provide protection so Russia doesn't just invade again later. So this is key if Kyiv really wants to begin to even talk about signing away territory. But the fear, and it's one shared by Europe as well, is that with Witkoff and Kushner in the Kremlin, meeting with Putin, somehow the U.S. and Russia will be cutting deals over their heads.
MARTÍNEZ: That's NPR's Charles Maynes in Moscow. Thanks a lot.
MAYNES: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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