STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Venezuela's president, Nicolas Maduro, denounced the CIA operation in Venezuela. In a televised speech, Maduro asked, when will the CIA coups stop?
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT NICOLAS MADURO: (Non-English language spoken).
INSKEEP: He goes on to say there Latin America doesn't want the coups, doesn't need them and repudiates them. Ned Price has been watching and listening. He's held senior positions in the past at the State Department and CIA in Democratic administrations and he's now at Harvard. Good morning.
NED PRICE: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: Does it strike you as unusual for the president apparently to talk publicly about a covert operation?
PRICE: It absolutely does and it's worth pausing to that question on, you know, what is simply just a remarkable headline, the president confirming a CIA covert action program from the Oval office. And, Steve, I think to understand just how extraordinary that is, it's worth speaking to what this is and what this is not.
And, look, I'm not revealing any secrets when I say that the CIA conducts espionage or spies...
INSKEEP: Sure.
PRICE: ...All over the world. But what's now authorized, according to the president in Venezuela, goes well beyond that traditional intelligence collection. And I say that because the CIA doesn't need additional authorities to do that. What the president confirmed yesterday is that he issued a presidential finding that authorizes the CIA to undertake operational activity - that's known as covert action - inside Venezuela.
And to my mind, that raises two important questions. Number one is what - what is that activity? And two, to what end? And, look, to the first question, we don't know exactly what that is.
INSKEEP: Yeah.
PRICE: But covert action can be anything from propaganda to sabotage to lethal operations to, you know, at extremist, even the overthrow of a government. And that takes us to a second question, as you were discussing with Franco - to what end? Are they primarily going after criminals, narco-traffickers, or is this more about targeting the Maduro regime and going after regime change itself?
INSKEEP: I wonder if it becomes a psychological operation when you talk publicly about the covert action? They're telling the Venezuelans, we're coming but you don't know where or what we're doing.
PRICE: Well, the irony, Steve, is that covert action, by definition, is an operation that is never intended to be made public. So the fact...
INSKEEP: Got it (ph).
PRICE: ...That we're even having this discussions itself, pretty remarkable. But, look, I think you're right, and I say that for a couple of reasons. Number one, The New York Times reported on this yesterday. Covert actions, presidential findings, are not the kind of stuff that you typically find in The New York Times or any other paper.
That mean - that says to me that the administration wanted to get that out there. And I think what I - that only reinforces my hunch is that the president actually confirmed it from the Oval Office. So it is apparently the case that the president has authorized this. It may well mean that the CIA is engaging in operational activity on the ground.
But to your question, Steve, they are absolutely engaging in the type of psychological efforts making, as we heard from Franco, the Maduro regime shake in their boots, or at least that's their hope.
INSKEEP: So this is one aspect of operations around Venezuela that also include a naval flotilla, the destruction of drug boats, their troops available if something was called for. And I'm trying to figure out how to think about all this, Ned Price. I am noting that the United States has had people killed in not times of war in the past.
President Obama expanded drone warfare some years ago, to give one example. And in fact, the United States a century or more ago used to intervene in the Caribbean all the time, sending the Marines here and there all the time. So given that there are some precedents for this, is this terribly unusual? And how do you think about it?
PRICE: Well, it is unusual for the modern era. Look, I mean, to your point, we have a long historical track record - the CIA does - from overthrowing Iran's communist government in '53, the coup in Guatemala in '54, the Bay of Pigs in '61, looking at other coups in South America which have been declassified and in some cases have not.
But here's the thing, Steve. The track record for all of this is not a good one. We have never seen a sort of Jeffersonian democracy flourish in the aftermath of this type of CIA operation. And I hasten to add that with Venezuela, there are unique concerns. First, look, Venezuela is already a source of so much of the migratory pressure in the region, reaching all the way to our southern border, which has been a huge focus and irritation of the Trump administration.
If there's further instability in Venezuela, we can only imagine that tens of thousands or more desperate migrants will seek to flee to our shores. So it's really counterproductive. Second, a weaker Venezuelan central government doesn't necessarily mean there will be additional pressure on the narco traffickers or criminal gangs.
In fact, it could have the opposite effect, at least in the short term. And then, third and finally, Steve, look, covert action itself tends to be the easy part.
INSKEEP: Ned Price is a former CIA senior analyst and former deputy ambassador to the U.N. Thanks so much.
PRICE: Thanks, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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