LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Let's get an update on the politics surrounding the shutdown. The White House seems to be using it to punish and pressure its opponents. Last night, the president called on Republicans to use the shutdown to, quote, "clear out dead wood." He's also spoken of doing, quote, "irreversible" damage in ways that are, quote, "bad" for his fellow Americans.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
The White House budget director Russ Vought is making good on that promise. He announced the cancellation of $8 billion for energy projects in 16 states. All 16 are considered blue states. Vought also canceled $18 billion in infrastructure funding for New York City. It's the home of Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer, although the cuts affect Democrats and Republicans alike, and some New York Republicans are objecting.
FADEL: To talk this through, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez joins us now here in the studio. Good morning.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Good morning, Leila.
FADEL: OK. So Russ Vought is not a household name for a lot of Americans, but he's perhaps the most influential person in Washington right now after the president. Just lay out what makes him so influential.
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, he has the keys to the federal budget right now. And he's using that power to the fullest, or at least he's threatening to. And let's just remember that Vought was also an architect of the controversial Project 2025 blueprint, where he advocated for a more activist approach to cutting spending and overhauling the federal workforce. And now he's part of the administration. I mean, this summer, he told reporters at a Christian Science Monitor event that now, with Republicans in full control of the government, it was time to rein in spending, even if it meant doing so without the support of Democrats.
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RUSS VOUGHT: The appropriations process has to be less bipartisan.
ORDOÑEZ: Last week, though, he sent out a memo to federal agencies telling them to prepare for large-scale firings of federal workers if the government shut down. And as you can imagine, that really drew the ire of Democrats. In response, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries called Vought a, quote, "malignant political hack."
FADEL: Now, we heard - what we said earlier - that the president really has been making threats - right? - that he's going to cut things and programs that Democrats like, but also that maybe some good could come out of this shutdown. So is choosing to do this now about curbing spending or inflicting pain on the Democrats so they'll budge?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, it's unclear. I mean, look, Congress has the power of the purse. But the Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson argues that its hands are tied because of the shutdown and that that power essentially has shifted to the executive branch. Now, usually or tendedly (ph), the government typically decides which employees are essential versus nonessential for a temporary shutdown. But in this case, the White House may be using that idea, that concept for permanent cuts.
FADEL: But does the White House have that authority?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I'll tell you, multiple federal worker unions say no, and they're suing. Bridget Dooling is a law professor at Ohio State University who worked at the OMB for over a decade. She says the shutdown does not give Vought or the White House any extra powers and thinking that it does is a misunderstanding of the differences between temporary lapses and appropriations, which is what a shutdown is, versus permanently laying off workers.
BRIDGET DOOLING: So this is a bluff, and this is the administration trying to use some leverage to basically force Democrats back to the table to negotiate to get the government back open.
ORDOÑEZ: Now, the White House is pushing Democrats to negotiate. But I'll say that based on Vought's past statements and his writings, he seems less focused on working with Democrats and more focused on making the cuts.
FADEL: What does the White House say?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, the Vice President JD Vance, he was at a press briefing yesterday. He blames Democrats for the shutdown but says they have to do a little triage, and that means layoffs, which the White House says are imminent. But the White House never explained why layoffs were necessary and not temporary furloughs.
FADEL: That's White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Thank you, Franco.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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