MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Joining us to hear more about this from the Democratic perspective is Senator Amy Klobuchar. She is a Democrat representing Minnesota. Senator Klobuchar, thanks so much for joining us.
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Michel. Good to be on again.
MARTIN: How optimistic are you about this meeting today between congressional leaders and the president?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, on behalf of the American people, we have to go at it with purpose and optimism, only because this is it. The president has failed to negotiate with leaders. Remember, just last week, he said, I don't need Democratic votes. And he's finally coming to the table to negotiate with congressional leaders, and it's going to be his decision. Is he going to treat this as political theater or is he going to treat it as he should, which is a serious crisis that's going on right now with health care, dictated by things that the Republicans did by throwing 15 million people off of Medicaid, the automatic $500 billion - billion dollar - cut to Medicare, which is really hitting rural hospitals. And as you just discussed with your correspondent, this cliff where the insurance tax premiums, the insurance premiums for the Affordable Care Act, which affects 20 million people, are going to skyrocket up 75%.
MARTIN: OK.
KLOBUCHAR: In rural, they're going to double.
MARTIN: So let's walk through a little bit. I mean, and just for the sake of sort of setting the context here, in March of this year, Senate Democrats, led by Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, worked with the Republicans to keep the government open. So why are Democrats taking the risk of forcing a government shutdown this time, especially now that the White House is threatening these mass layoffs? What's different now?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, for anyone that goes out in their states and talks to their constituents, we know what's different. They are not going to be able to afford these premium increases. Our hospitals are just on an edge as it is. Look at the economy. Inflation has been up four months in a row. Grocery prices are skyrocketing. Beef prices, egg prices, you name it, electricity prices are up. And yes, health care costs are going way up. So that's what's happening right now. It's very different than where we were back in March, and it makes it - we also have a issue that when I was listening to your correspondent talk about what Senator Thune had said on the Republican side, he's like, oh, we'll do this later. Later is not a word in Donald Trump's vocabulary.
MARTIN: Let me just understand what people are saying if...
KLOBUCHAR: He changes things - he changes his position day after day after day, and we need an actual negotiation. He says he prides himself on the art of the deal. Well, now is the time for him to actually negotiate with Democrats and make a deal. And it is an opportunity as well to help people with their health care and reverse some of these draconian changes that they made.
MARTIN: I just want to clarify what you were referring to. Senate Majority Leader John Thune suggested that the parties pass a clean continuing resolution to keep the government funded through late November, November 2021, and then try to negotiate with Republicans. Why is that a nonstarter from your perspective?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, as I said, this is not a December-January issue. This is a now thing when it comes to health care. So you go - you keep going another two months, another two months. Not one person has been helped by it, and that budget still stands. You have got Donald Trump, as we know, abusing the law, an assault on our system of law, including all of the things that he did just over the past week involving ordering a vengeance prosecution of Jim Comey. There is literally no limit, and that is why this is a moment where, at least for the American people, you know, we're standing up and saying, we're willing to work with Republicans, to work to reverse some of this draconian actions. But you've got to be able to work with us.
And that's why this meeting was so important. And I'm glad that he's calling the meeting. I'm glad that they're going over there because as one of my farmers described it, between the Trump tariffs, between what's happening with input costs for small businesspeople and farmers, what we're seeing right now, and the health care costs, is a perfect storm of ugly. That's what's happening to people right now, and they understand this. They understand why we're doing this, why we're fighting for them. And that is what we're facing (ph).
MARTIN: Are you sure about that? Are you so sure about that? Are you so sure about that?
KLOBUCHAR: Yeah. Actually...
MARTIN: Because the history of these shutdowns...
KLOBUCHAR: Go on. Go on, Michel.
MARTIN: I'm sorry. The history of these shutdowns suggests that people aren't really sure who to blame when it comes to this. One party doesn't necessarily gain advantage over the other. I mean, and Democrats position themselves as the party of the people. The government shutting down, not to mention forced layoffs, will hurt a lot of people. I mean, what convinces you that Democrat - that the shutdown will benefit Democrats' bargaining position rather than losing whatever political capital Democrats may have gained with the dissatisfaction we're seeing over the president's spending package?
KLOBUCHAR: Good question, but people understand, and the polls have shown this time and time again, no matter who's taking them, they know that Donald Trump is running this government, and that's part of why how he's running it that his disapprovals are now down, like, 12% under right now. On health care, only 35% believe he knows what he's doing. So that's where we are, and that is much different than where we are in March. People understand that they are running the White House and they're running the Senate, and they're running the House.
And we do have some power, despite him believing that he can just bully everyone. And by the way, he could threaten to fire people and has fired people and has laid off people regardless of a shutdown over the last year. He continues to do it. He uses those kinds of tactics to bully everyone into doing what they want. All that being said, we have said we're willing to negotiate. Certainly, with John Thune and with the speaker, but we know they always rubber-stamp everything Donald Trump wants. So having Donald Trump in the room where it happens is what is the most important to actually getting a commitment from them, which is why it wouldn't have worked like it does in past administrations, where the Congress negotiates something, they get some input from the White House. They bring the agreement to the White House.
We're dealing with a case here where Donald Trump literally dictates what they do. There are very rare and few examples where Republicans have refused to go along with him, even on tariffs that they know behind closed doors - and by the way, these Affordable Care Act tax credits, behind closed doors, they say, we know it's hitting a bunch of rural people. We know 'cause they depend on this in their states for health care. They still aren't willing to stand up. They still vote with him.
MARTIN: OK. That's...
KLOBUCHAR: So that's why we're demanding he be in the room.
MARTIN: Last question here. We have 30 seconds. We've seen the president and the Republicans use the tool of rescission to claw back already appropriated funds. If the - is this process still functional if one party doesn't trust these bipartisan spending agreements?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, one of the things we would hope to see is some language that would help with that. And that's, you know, being negotiated appropriations 'cause we shouldn't be giving him a blank check. He is treating the government budget as his own personal spending account. He decides he wants this, he doesn't want that. He decides he wants to help this state, not that. So that's why, despite what's been happening with him, we want to keep pushing that issue because under the Constitution, we're right.
MARTIN: That is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. And I want to mention we did invite Republican leaders to join us today, and that invitation remains open.
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